Keep Wild Trout?

[Sculpin]

Just curious to see what fellow members though about keeping wild trout. I for one wouldn't but one of my buddies told me to read a post by "Tackleman" on ctfisherman which brought up a debate over the issue... I think the subject was scantic river rainbows in the freshwater reports and was writtten about a week ago.
Tightlines

[Redwings1]

You would not find me doing so in the lower 48. Were I to head up in to Canada where the trout out number the people then that may be a different story... :wink:

[lar42]

Not a chance! There aren't enough of those to go around. I catch & release all trout. If there ever comes a time when the trout out number the people, as Redwings1 says, then I will consider it.

[Smoked Trout]

I do not take fish under any circumstance. I believe Lee Wulf said “a game fish is too valuable to be only caught once” Whoever said it I agree with them.


Regards,

[Ray]

If I want to eat a fish I go to the store and buy it!

[Richard W. Fleet]

I can't imagine keeping a wild trout.

[Troutfitter]

This site supports catch & release only. Wild trout are a rare commodity that can be easily erased from a stream that recieves even moderate fishing pressure. Many of the wild brook trout that exist take ten years to grow to a six inch size and become sexually mature.... so taking these trout home can wipe out an entire population in short order.

[Sculpin]

The real truth behind me asking the question is that I was banned from the ctfisherman site for posting my opinion in which I was against keeping wild trout....just wanted some piece of mind. Thanks and Tightlines!!!

[The Patriot]

No, I would not keep a fish that I believed to be wild. Although I do occasionally keep a few fish to eat. Maybe 10% of my annual catch.

Do we have confirmation from the DEP that "wild" rainbows exist in the Scantic? I ask because I honestly don't know, not to throw stones; but I am always skeptical of reports of "wild" fish, especially non native species.... rainbows were never native to this part of the country and were introduced from western stock in the late 1800's and early 1900's, just as browns were introduced from Europe. The only true "native" trout to the northeast is the Brook Trout. Technically speaking....

[Z Fisher]

I will keep wild trout when I feel that the stream has a solid population. For instance, I fish the headwaters of a small river in New Hampshire where there's a wonderful population of brookies. They're abundant and very yummy.

That being said, I have yet to find a river in CT with a similar situation. So, I'm C&R in Connecticut.

[hookandhackle]

Personally I don't keep any fish - salt or fresh water. I've caught striped bass to 45# and blues to 30# and won't keep them. To me they're too precious a sporting commodity. Same goes for wild trout. Never caught one but if I did it would go right back where it came from.

I don't see anything wrong with taking stocked fish. Once again it is not my personal practice to take stocked fish. 99.9% of the time I C&R.

I have had to take fish when fishing with my nephew on hook and worm. He was 8 at the time. While fishing with garden worms he's gut hooked a few. These of course were stocked fish and not wild or hold-over fish. We brought them to our neighbor who was very appreciative.

Now that I fly fish I've never gut hooked a trout. However, I just recently gut hooked a schoolie who hit my clouser so hard he knocked the eyes off. Took a while to work the hook out but got it w/o harming the fish. I try to work under water as much as I can.

Now if I ever catch a blue fin or yellow fin tuna there's no chance I'm practicing C&R. Sushi for everybody!

[Salter]

I do not kill any wild trout. I do take home a few Rainbows once in a while... my mother-in-law likes to eat a few fresh trout every spring.

Michael

[Troutster]

I personally don't keep any trout, or pretty much any other fish for that matter. I do support the practice out West where non-natives threaten native species: (Lake Trout in Yellowstone Lake), but around here- all C&R.

[sjpresley]

I keep a couple trout every now and then (usally rainbows), but I just can't bring myself to ever keep something I suspect might be wild, especially brookies, they are just too cool.

One exception, I have fished in the Allegany National Forest in Northern PA. There are some remote streams that are so small you can straddle them and some beaver ponds that are packed with brookies that are about 4-7"; they are so "wild" that you could catch them on a bare hook. I always kept my limit of those little guys, man are they good.

I actually caught three 16-17" brookies there, I couldn't get these big guys to rise to anything, finally, my hendrickson was so wet it started to sink....as I stripped it in one of the bruisers nabbed it. I used the same techniqe and caught (and released) all 3 of the biggies in that beaver pond. How sad is it when the 3 nicest brookies you ever caught were on a dry fly that you fished like a streamer.

[The Fisherman]

I haven't kept a fish in close to 30 years.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no wild rainbow trout in CT.

This debate is the primary reason I won't share the locations of any of my favorite wild trout holes.

[Sculpin]

There where no wild rainbows that where caught in the scantic post but a wild brown which was kept...but of other note I spent a few years working for the DEP fisheries division and from what I heard the only known naturally reproducing rainbow trout population in the state is found in the stream that dumps into barkhamsted res. on the NW corner just to the west of Valley brook I forget the name though. It flows through private water company land so fishing is illegal but there have been reports of some Wild Rainbows 5lbs+ that enter the stream to spawn from the res.. I'm sure if you contact the DEP fisheries (Neil Hagstrom) he could give you more info. if your curious.

[Kierran]

To kill a trout that was born and raised in a CT river/stream is a shame. Each one is a work of art.

[Catch 22]

The only true "native" trout to the northeast is the Brook Trout. Technically speaking....


Jim,
Technically speaking, the Brook Trout is a Char, not a "true" trout. :P

So There,

Jeff

[Catch 22]

To the best of my knowledge, there are no wild rainbow trout in CT.

If I recall correctly, there were 7 streams listed in the wild trout survey with wild bows in CT. I could be wrong, that happened once before!

Jeff

[The Patriot]

Typical firefighter.... :wink:

Yes, I am well aware that Brookies are Char and not "True Trout." I didn't think that distinction was necessary within the context of this particular discussion.... but thank you for pointing that out for the uninitiated. :P

I thought I was wrong once.... but I was mistaken.... :wink: :lol:

[The Fisherman]

I did a little digging, and it turns out that of the three dozen or so WTMA permutations in the state, only two have ever (since sampling started) had wild Rainbow Trout populations, and then only for a season or two before they disappeared. In both cases, large hen Rainbows migrated into the smaller stream from a larger river or lake, spawned, then vamoosed. Their broods lived for a year then likewise disappeared. To the best of my knowledge, there are currently no streams in CT with confirmed wild Rainbow populations.

[Eider]

Well I hate to say it, but if it is in the regs, the people have the right to take a fish. So, though you and I practice Catch and Release, we have no right to persecute those who keep fish if they do not break the law. This is why you guys have gotten kicked off CTfisherman.com, not because you disgreed with Mitch and his buddies, but because you put your thoughts across in such a way that insulted or lectured a law abiding fisherman.

Maybe the state should do some more research and make the Sciantic River a WTMA in order to protect the fish, because there are people out there who keep fish, and I for one have no beef with them as long as the fish are not wasted.

Lets be careful to how we as flyfishermen look in the eyes of the rest of the fishing world.

[The Fisherman]

I wasn't part of the ctfisherman debate.

While I agree with your statement that those who keep wild fish in rivers that are not designated WTMA or TMA aren't breaking the law, I still find it to be bad mojo to keep wild fish. They are a treasured resource that is in steep decline, and taking them (especially if they're small, or before they've spawned) can cause irreparable damage to trout poulations in some of the smaller streams. At some point everyone has to take responsibility for our natural resources, because without catch and release there'd be far fewer fish in the rivers. Where would put-and-take streams be without stocking? Empty. (Again, no quarrel or disdain at anyone who creels their limit of fish in designated areas).

I agree with you that the state needs to do a better job of designating certain streams as WTMAs, with no creeling of fish. There are plenty of places to harvest trout in CT, but IMHO not enough conservation-oriented areas.

As far as this site taking off or whether or not another is less sophisticated, I've always found this old scientific chestnut to be fairly accurate when describing peer/social groups: water seeks its own level. :wink:

[Smoked Trout]

Just because it is legal, does not make it right, nor worthy of respect. Sorry folks, just one man’s opinion.

Regards,

[Eider]

Smoked Trout (ironic name) I'm not talking about respect, i'm talking about people's right to keep a fish. The Fisherman has a point in saying everyone needs to take responsibility to protect our natural resources, but as long as it is not a TMA, people may take fish, and though we may disagree, it is their decision. I agree with the bad mojo part too, though I'm more of a Karma person :wink: The last trout i kept was one that I gut hooked while ice fishing, before that... I can't remember.

Maybe we should focus our efforts on bringing about better education for fisherman in the state of Connecticut. Maybe we should petition the DEP to make all wild trout streams WTMAs. This is where we have the right and the ability to do something to help.

I think that the steep decline in Wild Trout populations is more due to a habitat and pollution issue rather than a people-keeping-fish issue, though i cannot back this up with hard evidence as of today. We have issues of silting, pesticides/herbicides, chemical run-off from roads, etc that are much more damaging in terms of long term population stability. Call the Farmington Valley Watershed Association and volunteer for them, that is a great help.

Don't take my comments as someone who is against conservation, in fact it is quite to the contrary. As of next year I will be studying Wildlife Biology at the University of Montana in order to better protect the types of natural resources that we are discussing here.

[lar42]

I agree that all fisherman should be careful how they look in the eyes of others. All of us are judged not so much on what we say but on our behavior. This goes for fly fisherman as well the ones who catch and take. If you're taking fish, any species, from the legal areas and not wasting them then I don't have a problem with that. However, we are all responsible for using our best judgement on how many to take and when.

I also believe that it's a poor reason to ban someone from a website because they expressed an opinion that they believe in so much. That is why I made the statement about that particular website. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I should clearly stated my reasoning to begin with, I guess.


This is why you guys have gotten kicked off CTfisherman.com, not because you disgreed with Mitch and his buddies, but because you put your thoughts across in such a way that insulted or lectured a law abiding fisherman.

Maybe the state should do some more research and make the Sciantic River a WTMA in order to protect the fish, because there are people out there who keep fish, and I for one have no beef with them as long as the fish are not wasted.

It is this attitude that this site may not take off as we all hope that it will. lets be careful to how we as flyfishermen look in the eyes of the rest of the fishing world.

[The Patriot]

Steve (Fisherman),

Very well said, all the way around! Bravo!



Smoked Trout,

Ditto.



Eider,

I agree with many things you say. It is indeed perfectly legal to keep any fish within applicable regs, and I do not take issue with anyone who does. I too keep a few fish now and then within the regs.

But the topic at hand is, do we each as individuals feel it is ethical... not legal, ethical... to keep fish which we believe to be wild, and how do we each as individuals practice our ethics. I don't believe anyone here has condemned or persecuted anyone for keeping fish. I believe it is bad form to keep a fish which one believes is wild, and that is my opinion, and I am entitled to have it and express it, particularly when it is solicited, but even if it is not. That does not mean I am condemning or persecuting anyone.

Regards,

Jim (aka Nu2salt)

[Eider]

Jim,

You may have been banned before i joined the site over there, which i joined to get ice reports this year to make sure that it was safe. Please let me make a correction, It is MY experience that the people who have been banned have been so because they had insulted or lectured another person for keeping a fish, i was referring to the Catch and Release threads that come up every so often over there. I hope that i have gotten rid of this "gross generalization", i admit, i was too general and should have specified. If you were banned for your political views, that was wrong of the administrators at CTF.

And one last comment, ethics do not save fish in the long term. Action to protect habitat does. And in response to lar42, many people are not educated enough as to the fish populations to know how many is too many. That is our job as educated fisherman, to educate others, not criticize because they don't follow our ethics.

We can continue this conversation on the river if you see me. I fish upstream of the Church Pool (up past Riverton), hippy looking college kid with a fiberglass 5-wt. I love to chat.

JD

[The Patriot]

I'd love to fish with you and talk in person. I'm 6'3" and go about 230#, and I drive a black GMC Suburban. And I love hippy college kids. I was one about 25 years ago 8) :D , and have two daughters already out of college. :wink: Only I don't get up above Riverton much, unless I have to cuz of river conditions. But maybe I'll see you around....

Peace,

Jim

P.S. I agree with you about educating others, and habitat and all that. But it's very hard to educate someone who insists on gut hooking trout with bait in a TMA and insists it is his legal right to do so (which it is).... or someone who insists it is his legal right to take his two 12 inch fish a day, regardless of wether they are wild or not.... and gets offended and accuses you of lecturing him and being a snob for trying to educate him. Hmmmmm ..... something to think about.

[Sculpin]

Eider's Quote:
"Maybe we should focus our efforts on bringing about better education for fisherman in the state of Connecticut. Maybe we should petition the DEP to make all wild trout streams WTMAs. This is where we have the right and the ability to do something to help."

I believe the DEP has done its homework on wild trout streams and the reason that all wild trout streams aren't designated WTMA's is due to the amount of wild trout found in streams, i.e. streams with strong populations, sustainable populations which are in limited number in the state are designated WTMA's which is pretty obvious. However, streams prephaps like the scantic with marginal populations that have plenty of fishable water are stocked for the put and take opportunity because bottomline it would be more useful to fishermen that way. So why not keep the four stocked fish you catch and release the wild fish.
What I'm trying to say is Wild trout are a much more limited resource than stocked trout which are abundant in many Connecticut waterways and keeping a wild trout could do a lot more harm than good....I mean most stocked trout die before the summer is out but will always be back for the next spring....wild trout could be gone forever.

As for petitions and what.....discussions like these on web sites like these should not be deleted or cause people to be banned since they are critical in educating fellow anglers and all who care.

Tightlines!

[Z Fisher]

I'd support a petition for more WTMAs, though I'm not sure how much effect it would have on someone who is hell bent on poaching. Poachers poach no matter what the signs say. And eliminating poachers requires additional resources. So more WTMAs may have a good educational fix but in order to truly protect these areas you need more WTMAs and more funding for EnCon police officers. Without officers to respond to poaching reports you'll have little affect on poaching.

[The Patriot]

Sculpin,

Is this the post that got you banned?

"T-man great post you definitely get respect as a fine fisherman...but one thing concerns me with the thousands of trout the state stocks for our put and take fishery why keep a wild trout? The amount of streams able to sustain wild trout is reduced every year in the state due to development and several other factors, in my opinion catch and release is the only option just my 2 cents...If your lookin to put food on the table try the Middle and Willmantic rivers theres plenty of stockers in there....Tightlines!!!"

If it is, I hope you don't mind my copying and pasting it here for "educational purposes".

This post is hardly insulting, nor is it a lecture. He merely expessed an opinion, a point of view... "just my 2 cents" ......

Again, how do you propose we educate people if we can't even say anything to them about practicing catch and release? He took no issue with keeping four stocked fish, just the one possibly wild fish....

[Eider]

If this was the post that got him banned, then i think that Mitch should shove it up his. It's a legitimate post that i had not read, nor insulted anyone. It brings up good points. I was talking more towards some of the other posts that i had read, esp concerning the keeping of pike (at least those are the ones that stick in my mind.

Could we start a Conservation section to this forum? That might get some of these questions out there as well as a board in which we can use as a spring board for action.

[treehooker]

Just a few comments:

When I was a kid, I used to limit out on trout as often as possible.

When I got to be a teenager, I statred using a flyrod and became rabidly against keeping fish. Except for one bluefish, I haven't kept a fish since that time.

In middle age, my attitude has changed again, and I see nothing wrong with keeping a legal stocked trout, even though I haven't done it myself. That's why DEP put the fish in the water to begin with. Its not a question of ethics unless you are worried that the Heron population will starve. I believe Izzak Walton wrote "I love to kill nothing but fish".

Native brook trout are a different story.

You have all articulated your points well in this thread, but a word of caution: Gang wars between internet forums never do anyone any good. They just bring out the worst in everybody and in the end are meaningless anyway.

[Chappy]

I too feel that c&r is valuable. Even when I was a spin fisherman I would enjoy the trophy of the picture/battle more than in my freezer. I don't feel that restraint is used enough especially by spin fisherman. I'm not pointing a finger just going by what i see. I used to work in a meat department and would see these farm raised rainbows come in to be packaged. They had some real beauties. I love the flavor of trout, and the "old lady" loves my grilled recipe. So i think that it's just a matter of judgement.

[The Patriot]

Eider,

Thank you for reviewing your position on this. I applaud you. It takes a big man to admit a mistake.

Which is not to say there isn't merit in some of what you said; some people have gone to far over there and deserved to get what they got. I just don't think it applies in the instant situation.

Anyway, no hard feelings, it's good to have younger anglers like yourself, especially those of you commited to conservation and preservation of fly fishing traditions, amongst us. You are the future of our sport.....Peace...



SP526,

I think Eider gets it now. Enough on CTF. We have better and more important things to discuss here. Welcome to the best flyfishing board in CT!

As for the Farmington in Simsbury.... I have never fished it, but my understanding is that it is primarily a warm water environment, with Black Bass, Bream, and Pickeral the dominant species, except for the first few weeks or month of the season, when it may be stocked, and the mouth of Salmon Brook up by Granby. That said, there are occasionally a stray trout caught here and there, but trout are not the dominant fish in that stretch, as they are from Riverton to Unionville. I believe there is additional trout fishing available from Salmon Brook, downstream through the Tariffville Gorge, and on down to the Rainbow Dam, but again, I have never fished up there myself.

It's always worthwhile to explore new waters. Fly fishing is like a box of chocolates.... you never know what yer gonna git..... :wink: :D If only I didn't have to work for a living and could devote all my time to fishing, so I could avail myself of the abundant opportunities available..... ah, to dream.....

[treehooker]

Hey...
has anyone noticed that this has gone from being a thread about wild trout to being a catch & release vs. keeping debate in general?
Or a debate about who's website has moral superiority, or whose viewpoint has moral superiority.....
Never mind, I'll just shut up.

Say, anyone want to smoke a cigar?

[The Fisherman]

Funny you mention that, I noticed this morning and I thought I'd just shut up. :wink:

And yes, I'd love a cigar.

[The Patriot]

Sometimes threads do that.... they evolve, or devolve as the case may be, into related tangents. In this case, I feel the shift was legit, and appropriate.

C&R vs. Keep is also relevant, because if you are practicing C&R, you have zero chance of inadvertantly killing a wild fish. If you are judiciously practicing C&R, and paying attention to the fish you are catching, you greatly reduce your chances of killing a wild fish. I am not at all against keeping a few fish, and I do so myself from time to time. Trout, Stripers, Bluefish, if I ever get a Weakfish or Bonito....

But if your attitude is I'm going to keep every fish that is legal to do so, indiscriminately, without consideration for wether or not a fish is or may be wild..... well then, there is no question but that you run the risk of killing wild trout.

Again, we come back to the crux of the specific discussion, wild trout, and the bottom line is this..... just because something is legal, doesn't make it ethical, or right.

And THAT is about wild trout, not about catch and release vs. keep, or moral superiority. Well maybe it does have something to do with moral superiority.... tough.

[The Fisherman]

I hope this board keeps its focus on fishing and less on being "in" or with the "right" crowd, insults, and generally silly behavior.

That's what high school was for. :wink:

Ultimately, it's all up to us. Do unto others and all that. Let's all do our best to keep this a flame free zone, and maintain it as a safe haven for those who just love fly fishing.

[treehooker]

I really shouldn't post this (mainly because its way off topic)...but....
I have a philosopical question for you, 3weight. We can both agree that if something is legal it isn't necessarily right, but would you also say that if something is illegal it might not necessarily be wrong?
This isn't a snotty question---I'm serious.

[The Patriot]

Yes, being a liberal, I am of the opinion, and that's all any of this is, an opinion, that just because something is illegal it is not necessarily wrong.

Some would argue that if something is illegal, it is therefore by definition wrong, because it is simply wrong to do something illegal. I disagree.

But I see no relevance to the topic of keeping wild trout. Would you care to explain, or are you merely trying to bait me into an argument, which I have no desire to engage in with you or anyone else. I don't think I have been out of line with anyone in this thread, I have addressed various issues as they have arisen relating to this topic, and the aspect about CTF was certainly relevant.

Where are you going with this? Again, I take no issue with anyone who legally keeps fish and I do so myself. So what have I said to aggravate you?

[treehooker]

3 weight, sorry if I gave you the impression I was aggravated. That's not the case at all.
As I said, it was not only way off topic, but just a philosophical question.
I was really interested in your opinion, and as it happens we are in complete agreement, both as to the proposition in general and your specific example.
And you're right--there is no relevance to the topic at hand.

[The Patriot]

Cool enough! 8) Peace! :)

[Todd K]

I was going to lock this thread, but feel there is some good information and conversation. Personal opinions are allowed but bashing is not permitted on this board. This is one of those issues we can argue until we are blue in the face, so please keep it civilized.

Lets keep to topic and leave other websites out of it.

Im going to edit and remove unwanted replies.

[trouter203]

i cannot believe that someone was banned from the ctfisherman site because they were against keeping wild trout. talk about ignorance. if the people registered on this site kept their catch, the people on that site would be fishing barren waters.
i have been fishing for 25 years now. i have seen all my favorite wild trout holes become vacant due to lower water levels from new wells and the ignorant who take their trout home. all i have are memories and i am only 34. that is sad. imagine what someone twice my age has for memories.
brookies are native and all species can be wild but not native. there are places around where you can catch wild bows and browns although you have to look hard. i rather let them be and go to the del for my wild trout.

[Todd K]

AGAIN. LEAVE OTHER SITES OUT OF IT OR IM LOCKING THIS THREAD.