Wonder if all the rain will effect the fishing?

[FishHawk]

Perhaps the streams in Ct should be open all year round. This will help with the problem of poaching and the state would not be pressured to stock fish that will wind up in the bushes after the water recedes.
It works here in Ma. FishHawk

[flyguy]

Mass IFW stocked the Squannacook and Nissitissit two days before the nor'easter hit. Now you can fish for all the nice rainbows and browns down at Plum Island. I agree that no closed season spreads out the pressure and gives the hatchery-fresh fish a better chance to acclimate without 500 people dragging a worm or woolly bugger past their nose on opening day. Too bad the people who scheduled the stocking didn't look at the weather report.

[phishhead]

I would like to side with the CT DEP. To say that they should have checked the weather reports before stocking is not a fair point. Think of the legistics, how many thousands of fish and how many miles of streams they stock. If the weather was bad up untill Friday, should they have waited untill the week after opening day to stock? The DEP does what they can with the resources they have.

[flyguy]

Read the gawd-darn post. The issue stated was no closed season/no opening day which now "forces" DEP to stock prior to opening day. If there was no closed season, then they wouldn't have had to unload the hatchery right before a big storm that had been forecasted for almost a week. There is nothing to "side with CT DEP" since nobody said anything against them given the circumstances.
My comment was about MASS IFW where there is NO closed season. Those idiots weren't under any pressure to stock those fish since there is no closed season in MASS. They could have waited a week until the water went down a little with no problem at all.
We can all "side with DEP" since they had very little choice given an April 21 opening day.

[The Fisherman]

I don't think phishhead's comments were out of whack with where the discussion has headed.

Let's all take a deep breath, relax, and keep it civil. :D

[PaulieC]

I thought DEP held of on stocking some of the rivers where the water was goign to be to high. I think they plan on going back next week to finish up.

[phishhead]

I guess I don;'t have a clue, I'll keep my mouth shut!

[FishHawk]

Confirmed. I was fishing a UDL on Fri. and the stocking truck showed up they only put in three net full right at the drop off were the truck comes in. Usually they stock this area with boats. Spoke to the personnel and they said it would be a good idea if the rivers were opened all year round. FishHawk

[The Patriot]

Phishhead, by all means, continue to speak your mind. I don't necessarily agree with your post, but you're certainly entitled to have and express your view.

I happen to agree with Flyguy (except for the read the gd post thing.... gee, don't bite the guys head off.... :wink: ). We would all, including the fish, probably be better served by no closed season.

I think they should definitey open the entire Farmington for Catch and Release year round, with designated sections open for harvest in the traditional season. Maybe even shorten that season up a bit, and expand the C&R areas. Nothing new, I know we've all discussed this before.

I happen to enjoy the "tradition" of an "opening day", but we could still have a year long season, catch and release of course, and have opening day when designated waters were open for harvest. At least on the major streams with TMA's, like the Farmington, the Hous, or even the Salmon and others.


Unfortunately, that would still bring out the hoopla of "opening day" for all the once or twice a year trout guys that catch their limit and fry 'em up. But it might make the stocking process more logical and less driven by a calendar or deadline.

I agree that they should not have stocked under the circumstances. And yes, if that means they have to wait until after opening day to do so, so be it! It's opening day, the FIRST day of the season, not the ONLY day. If that means fishing sucks on opening day, guess what? Get yer butt out there the weekend after they stock! Since when is opening day a guarantee that there'll be tons of fish to catch? It's the Dept of ENVIRONMENTAL Protection, not the Dept of CONSUMER Protection. Opening day shouldn't have to equal a guaranteed limit catch, in my opinion.

If anyone disagrees with me, feel free to speak freely, but please be polite and respectful. :D

Jim

[The Fisherman]

I don't understand why there is a closed season for un-stocked, not "on the DEP books" streams.

[The Patriot]

If you're talking about wild trout streams, I think alot of that may have to do with spawing, and in that case, it is probably not only wise, but necessary. Can you imagine letting people tromp around a wild trout stream all year? It wouldn't be a wild trout stream for very long......

[The Fisherman]

I'm talking about streams that aren't on the DEP logs, not stocked, so yes, they would have to be wild trout streams. But if your theory was valid, wouldn't Class 1s have to be closed year round? They aren't and they seem to reproduce fish OK.

Browns and brookies spawn in the fall, yes?

[Jon]

Indeed, and there are those of us (or maybe just me!) who'll take some getting used to the idea of being able to fish wild streams year round. Why? Because I'd rather trout had a window of time when they are undisturbed by anglers wading pools, catching fish etc. Also, I kinda like the notion of abstaining for a short time, reflecting at season's end etc etc. Good for me, good for the fish.

I posted recently to ask about the principle of keeping even some wild streams open (I'm gloriously ignorant of this, being fresh off the boat from the UK, where there are no such laws) and the answer had something to do with the fish being hard to catch anyway. So why not leave them undisturbed?

Just musings. After all, When in Rome.. I'm the new guy here, so no wish to rock the apple cart.

PS. Not sure that a stream necessarily becomes a wild trout stream by virtue of it not having been stocked?

PPS. Think I've gone totally off the thread of this message, sorry.

K

[The Fisherman]

To use a phrase from the UK, they can be BLOODY hard to catch sometimes. Especially wild browns.

I have been humbled by many a Class 1. (And, to be fair, on some other days kicked the snot out of mother nature.) :wink:

[Jon]

I appreciate the difficulty angle (!), but this doesn't stop even well-intending anglers disturbing spawning fish/habitat. Sorry, I don't get the ethics of no closed season for wild fish.

Happy to be enlightened!

[cirrus]

Because I'd rather trout had a window of time when they are undisturbed by anglers wading pools, catching fish etc

I always wondered about spawning wild trout in the WTMA's and if during that period they are spawning they shouldnt be left alone. I think both browns and brookies spawn in the fall but not sure how long that period might be.

[Jon]

I think brownies do spawn in autumn/winter a little later than brooks. Rainbows are spring spawners.

[The Patriot]

Steve,

Kirk has hit it on the head..... I didn't say wild trout streams had to be closed year round. On the contrary, I said they can't be OPEN year round, because as Kirk says, there has to be a period where they are left undisturbed in order to make the most of natural reproduction. And the redds can't be trampled on constantly or the eggs won't survive. That's why so many streams are closed after September 30th, both here and in NY. Areas where natural reproduction is important to the stream need to be left alone. And browns and brookies spawn in the fall, whereas rainbows do their thing in the spring.

If a stream is not stocked and still supports trout, it would then be a "wild" trout stream, even if the original trout put there were hatchery products, because the fish would therefore have to be reproducing. While those fish may not be truly "wild" (with no hatchery lineage), they are in fact stream bred, and after a few generations they are for all intents and purposes "wild" fish.

Natural reproduction in streams is relatively rare, and very difficult to promote. If wild trout streams were open year round, even during the spawning season, I would think this would have an adverse effect on the natural reproduction of the fish. Again, that is why many streams in CT as well as in NY (W. Branch Delaware, for one) close in the fall in areas where natural reproduction is expected to take place.

[Z Fisher]

As much as I like having my Class 1 WTMA open year-round, it probably makes sense for it to have a closed season during the late fall and winter. I don't think you need a spring spawning period as I've got no time for 'bows in my WTMA. :-)

The trade-off could be that some of the stocked waters stay open year-round.

[The Fisherman]

Jim, my good friend...say what? :D

I never thought that you said wild trout streams had to be closed year round.

But your post has me confused.

All CT Class 1s are open year round.

I don't know of any CT streams that are closed after Sept. 30.

And since wild rainbows are extraordinarily rare in CT, why can't I fish an unstocked, not on the DEP books streams from 3/1 through 3rd Saturday in April? Is it the same reason I can't buy a six pack on Sunday? (This last question isn't for you, but for the policy makers.)

[Jon]

Well I'm glad that's all sorted out then :wink:

Anyone been fishing?

[The Patriot]

But if your theory was valid, wouldn't Class 1s have to be closed year round?

This is the comment I was replying to. I was not aware that WTMA's are already open year round. I think we may be having two different conversations, or at least are making different points.



I don't understand why there is a closed season for un-stocked, not "on the DEP books" streams.

I thought that this was referring to WTMA's. So first I heard you saying that there was a closed season on unstocked, ergo wild streams, which I equated to WTMA's.

Now that I understand the distinction between WTMA's, or Class 1's, and "unstocked streams", I cannot offer a theory as to why they would close streams that aren't stocked, and are not WTMA's or Class 1's or whatever......

While they don't close altogether, the Collinsville TMA and the Salmon River TMA revert to no kills after September 30th. I'd have to go through the Angler's guide stream by stream, but I thought I had read that some lesser streams closed altogether after that date, presumably for spawning purposes, as does the W. Branch of the Delaware and many other NY wild trout waters.

Sorry for confusing everyone..... :roll:

I will say this.... if they're not closing WTMA's for spawning purposes, I would suggest that they probably should. As I said, natural reproduction is a delicate process, and the less disturbed the habitat is, the better for the fish.

Steve, is there a particular stream to which you are referring, and are you certain that it is not stocked and that it is closed from March 1 to the third Saturday in April? Since I basically only fish on the Farmington, I've never really checked out the regs for any other streams, other than in casually skimming through the Anglers Guide.

If a stream is not stocked, or otherwise "managed" I can't imagine why it would be closed during that particular window.

As a separate issue, are there WTMA's that are managed for rainbow trout, or they mostly managed for brown and brook trout?

[The Fisherman]

Ah, yes, confusion reigns. Looks like we're all sorted out. :wink: Thank goodness!

My apologies if I sounded like a dic% in my response.

The DEP guide says that "If no site-specific regs are listed for a waterbody, statewide regs apply." To my thinking, that means unless it's a tidal section of a river (and upland brookie streams are decidedly not tidal) it's closed from 3/1 through 6am 3rd Sat in April. Which makes no sense to me. There are particular streams to which I am referring, although most of you know me well enough to know I will not list them.

Wild Rainbow trout are virtually non-existent in CT, so no, there are no Class 1s managed as such. Although I might know of one or two streams in the area that MIGHT have wild rainbows. Now and then. :wink: