New Fly Rod Material

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello
I thought you may be interested in this new fly rod material.
The dampening characteristics of our current materials are something that has plagued the industry for some time.
I think this concept has considerable potential !
Here's a link to learn more Google the Company and Material names !

Tight Lines and Organic Loops
Andy M
(http://www.projo.com/sports/tomm...cbab1.html)

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello
The link I posted above has an error .
I decided to add another post and add better links.
I hope it work this time.
The material is called Curran and is made from vegetables carrots look to be the main ingredient.
The company is Cullucomp .
Here are more links.

www.cellucomp.com/ - 2k

www.investmentconference.co.uk/CIC_presenters/CIC_2006/cellucomp_cic_information.asp - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

www.scrippsnews.com/node/25508 - 32k

www.fmtc.co.uk/carrot-rod-news.html - 11k

You can find more information if you Google the material name and or the company name.
I posted enough links to wet your whistle .
I would be interested in knowing what you think of this new concept material for fly rods.

Tight Lines and Linked Loops
Andy m

[southpaw526]

Looks interesting.....You can call your first series "The Carrot Stick".......

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello
My first series ?
I will be watching for these rods !
When I get the opportunity I will certainly test them out.
As far as adopting or utilizing the material in any rod I build professionally that would only come after I was comfortable that the material has the quality & characteristic's that I demand .
I find the dampening claims to be the most interesting.

Tight Lines and Interesting New Loops
Andy M

[Todd K]

Explain what you mean by "dampening".

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello Todd
I am glad you asked that question !
In a Nut Shell
During the casting stroke and flex curve a fly rod vibrates.
At the end of the forward and back cast all fly rods osculate and vibrate.
Without dampening a rod would virtually vibrate continually.
These vibrations are what partially cause tailing loops,inaccurate cast,poor presentations,
Solid structured fly rods built of Bamboo have better dampening characteristics
While many fly fisher people prefer Bamboo over hollow structured fly rods they most time will say it's the feel.
Many will say they get better presentations ,smother casting strokes,more precise cast and they only find this with Bamboo.
Often they never realize the thing that is so different is the dampening aspects and how they differ from Bamboo,Fiberglass,Graphite and Boron.
The first Fiberglass rods had what was known as tip bounce this was caused buy the excessive vibrations and osculations at the end of a forward casting stroke.
With improvements in the tapers, material lay ups and advances in technology this tip bounce problem was soon resolved.
The Vibrations were still ever present but were reduced to more manageable levels.
As time has gone by the introduction of Graphite,Boron this problem of Vibration has been a constant and a major controlling factor in fly rod design.
Most rod company's have added different kinds of special additives to their blank lay up designs to improve dampening.
These design and manufacturing process are what make the rods we cast from different company's so different.
How they approach the dampening problem and what their concept of a proper amount of dampening is what partly separates the rods that you have to think about when casting them and the rods that seem to cast themselves.
I have been working on the dampening problem in hollow structured fly rods since the the early 80's.
I offer what I call Infused Flex Enhancement with the custom rods I build as an option .
I have a process where I inject structural urethane foam inside the rod blank.
The foam dampens the rod during the casting stroke considerably and allows
better presentations, smoother casting strokes,and much improved accuracy.
The process also allows the rod to have a greater effective casting range due to the way the Infused Flex Enhancement supports the hoop strength of the blank during the stress curve of the rod.
So after many years of working to improve the dampening characteristics of a fly rod I am very excited to here that this may have been achieved with this new material.
I assure you I will be keeping my attention focused on this new material !

To read more about fly rod Dampening Google "Dampening Fly Rod"

I hope I have been some help !

Tight Lines and Dampened Loops
Andy M

[cirrus]

Hello Todd
These vibrations are what cause tailing loops,inaccurate cast,poor presentations

And this whole time I just thought I sucked at casting.....;))

Very interesting stuff Andy!

[Wolfy]

Purist might like this one. It's a natural material like bamboo but with the technology and lightweight like graphite. Should be interesting to see if it catches on.

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello
As with mostl new things the price for these rods is out of site at least for my budget.
I can only hope that by next spring they can reduce the price or at least offer blanks so I can have the opportunity to try one out.
Maybe next springs local fishing shows will have a representative from Cellucomp so we can all give them a whirl.

Tight Lines and Pricey Loops
Andy M

[nympher1]

Carrots???? Did you say carrots? Hmmm... remind me to never lay my rod down in a field full of those cwazy wabbits....

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello Nympher1
I know it seems strange to think of a rod made from vegetables.
Some may think it strange to make rods from a grass as well.
When I read all the information it seems that it's allot more than just carrots that go's into the construction of theses carrot stix.
I can't wait to try one and I hope they are available locally soon .
Maybe you and I should both consider contacting them jointly as 2 interested rod Builders/Makers and find out if we can see a sample ?

Tight Lines and Just a Suggestion Loops
Andy M

[FK]

The foam filled graphite rod has been arround for 20-30 years. I beleive it was named hexagraphic, from the outside it was hex shaped with flat sides and painted to look like bamboo. They even had the heavy metal ferrules, how can anyone rave about bamboo and ignore the flat spot in the rod bend profile?

I cast several of these rods, they were heavy klunkers,,,,,but closer to bamboo with the slow soft actions and slow heavy action.


Regards,
FK

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello
I'm Not really sure what your point here is ?
In fact the practice of a foam filled Hollow structured fly rods has been around since 1963 and was and introduced by St Croix and Known as Magna Flex and Double Power .www.stcroixrods.com Please see about us 1963 in the company's history.
The materials and processes I use are different than the St Croix rods I assure you .
I build custom rods and adjust the density of the foam to achieve different desired characteristics.
My research and development is not limited to only the Infused Flex Process I employ in some of my custom rods upon request as an option.
The rest of what I do would come under the heading of trade secrets.
My rods are quite special just ask anyone that has one or has cast one !
Your comment about hexagraph is not quite accurate heavy metal ferrules is not quite an accurate description the ferrules were very light weight and made of the finest quality nickel silver .www.hexagraph.com
The hexagraph rods were designed to meld the best characteristics of both Bamboo and Graphite the basic concept is through applied physics and the application of advanced technology to make the best use of the characteristics of both materials and designs.
The hex shape and tapers of the finest bamboo rods combined with a Graphite blank filled with a urethane foam core to mimic the solid dampening characteristic's of the pith found in a solid bamboo fly rod .
If you check the facts you will find that the rods are very light in weight. Fantastic rods with a very close feel to that of the best bamboo rods by design.
To all my fellow Grass and Glass lovers I said close .
A little known fact in the Movie "A River Runs Through It" while bamboo rods were used in all the close ups the rod in most all the casting sequences were from what I understand hexagraph ! Graphite.
Another fact check the going rate for these rods they have held their value and in some cases increased in cost due to demand.
The concept of decorating rods to look like bamboo it not a new practice many rod companies have decorated their rods with the fake bamboo look.
Kingfisher rods is the first that comes to mind made during the 50's.
Heddon also made a cane look alike in glass during the same period.
As to dead spots in Bamboo rods all rods have a dead spot some more apparent than others.
The difference between a well made and Junk Bamboo rod is the effects of the dead spot in the flex curve.
Many Fine Bamboo rods have little dead spot that you can notice.
Again this depends on the maker. the taper .the materials and the components used to finish the rod.
The same is true of the latest rods built unless of course the rod is of a one piece design with no ferrule.
Then what you have as the dead spot is when the flex curve is at it's greatest amount/point of stress you get what is called the point of hoop distortion.
This is caused when the blank starts to change from a round shape to that of an egg.
When the hoop starts to collapse the transfered energy is interrupted and the rod it at it's maximum natural deflection flex and the cast fails falls apart.
These are all known natural effects and facts of Physics.
The topic in this thread is about a NEW rod material and we have certainly strayed from that nothing new with the Hexagraph rods Nothing really new when it comes to Foam filled rods either for that matter.
That first came out in the early 60's and then resurfaced in the late 80's .
All that hasn't changed is the importance of dampening in all fly rod designs and the search for materials with better dampening characteristic's.
For me as a professional rod Maker/Builder working with the effects of fly rod dampening for over 30 years I am very excited about this new material.
When I see all the awards this new fly rod material has won and read the claims and testimonials I can't wait to get one in my hands.
I also can't wait to see if MY Dampening Processes can have any additional positive applications along with this new material !

Tight Lines and New Loops
Andy M

[Todd K]

I can't wait to hear what you think of this material when you get your hands on it Andrew.

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello Todd
I'm working on it !
If I can get a hold of one I will not only share my thoughts I will do my best to see that my fellow nutmeg's get to give it a whirl as well !.
Tight Lines and New Loops.
Andy M

[FK]

Andy,

"I build custom rods and adjust the density of the foam to achieve different desired characteristics."
________________________________________________

So you have steel mandrels and wrap up the graphite cloth, have it cured in an oven and finish the outside?

I did not realize someone in CT was building rod blanks.

Any hollow tubing will deform from round to eliptical shape when flexed, the foam will change that deformation somewhat, depending upon the resistance to compression of the foam material. I would guess your foam will stiffen a blank relative to normal construction?

Regards,
FK

[Todd K]

This thread has been editied so we can get back to the topic at hand.

I did not remove anything that was relavent to the topic. If you have an issue with this PM me.

Thx

[ANDREW W MANCHESTER JR]

Hello FK
I am not going into the inner workings of my rod shop and rod building practices with you any further here.
Sorry but your comments and questions seem a bit sarcastic.
If that is a misunderstanding I apologize.
I would be happy to explain more to you and if you are interested in one of my custom rods please contact me.
I sent you a PM yesterday basically to the same effect with contact information as well.
The only reason I even mentioned my work was to explain the importance of this new material with it's reported dampening characteristics and how that relates to me .
I have contacted Cellucomp and made detailed inquiries about the new rods made of Curran when I get more information I will post what I learned.

Tight Lines and Curran Loops
Andy M

[FK]

Andy M,

I appologize for the impression of being sarcastic. I do have a tendency to "tweek" the bamboo fans after enduring the comments on "tupperware" and DuPont rods and the superior casting of bamboo relative to the graphite "broomsticks".

You have a unique product and I would like to test drive a rod in the future.

Regards,
FK