Poach Patrol

[river1]

Was doing some roll casting this afternoon in the upper reservation when two knuckleheads cruised by with a pair of 6 ft spin outfits which had (what appeared to be) 5" diameter bobbers attached.
The more troublesome site was the stringer that was impaling a pair of nice rainbows. I had the appropriate conversation yet as I tried a casual follow back they dumped their gear in the bed and peeled out before I could get the tag.
Instead of describing the pair or the truck and maybe making it difficult for an innocent party, and knowing there is a good chance they arn't a member in this fraternity, I guess it brings me to the simple question of why.
why NOT for the ability to fish this area year round, but WHY don't we mirror other New England waters(like the Rapid in Maine for instance) and put one (1) simple rule in place for all trout management areas, regardless of season.
no bait in no kill
Now I'm not trying to take away the joy that a parent has with their child on their collective virgin trip to the banks of the Farmington, nor am I wanting to take away the pride and perceived wear-with -all one might feel after hooking a worm for your significant other with the grace of a professional knitter finishing up a throw blanket. Even for the crazies in the bunch, the restless souls who wants to show their worth by worming a hook then going straight for the smokeless tabbaco tin, without wiping his hands. Nope, I don't want to take this away from any of the before mentioned......
Yet I would like to restrict the senseless deep hooking and butchering of trout in the areas already set with the focus of providing some sort of sanctuary for the betterment of the fishery.
ESPECIALLY BY A PAIR OF guys in the mid to late 30's before the season even allows them to.
If the sign says FISHING WITH BAIT PROHIBITED
maybe they still would have been out there, out there somewhere in the other 15 or so miles, but at the very least, those two fish would have been in the river right now, trying to get some shut-eye before the pressure drops on Sunday and the weather comes in.

[trouter203]

i wonder if those losers even have licenses. even it was a catch and keep section, they were still a week early. i have zero tolerance for poachers in fresh or saltwater.
i would love to see the upper river designated as fly fish only but i don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

[pvansch1]

You NEED to still call it in!!
DEP can do nothiing if they don't know about it. Give the best description you can of persons and vehicle and the location. If we don't call these in DEP assumes "No Foul" on the river.
Please call it in.

[flyrodder]

What makes you think that banning bait in the TMA would prevent poaching? Remember, these people are already breaking the law by keeping fish in a TMA and they probably don't even have licenses anyway.

As far as not allowing bait in the TMA: I have very mixed feelings about it. On a purely conservational level, I don't support it. The Farmington trout population is heavily reliant on fish that are stocked throughout the season. Secondly, bait fishermen as a whole are generally not interested in C&R so flyfishermen outnumber bait fishermen in the TMA anyway. So the hooking related mortality of bait caught fish is going to be low to begin with. Add in the multiple stocking efforts and the fact that the fish move around, and these fish are in a sense "replaced" anyway. Not allowing bait in the TMA would have really no net effect on improving the fishing experience. In a catch and release water that is primarily dependent on wild fish I can see where banning bait makes sense. By the way the DEP has done studies on this issue and come to the same conclusions.

On a more personal level I would love to see bait banned simply to keep the scumbags away. I am not going to mince words, and I know some will find this offensive, but my observation on the whole is that a lot of bait fishermen are classless slobs. I fish a lot and I can say that I don't see a lot of stream side litter that can be directly attributed to fly fishermen. But what I do see is a lot of styrofoam bait containers, empty lure packages, and hundreds of yards of tangled monofilament, and I can only assume that the same a-holes who left that stuff were the ones who left the beer cans and dunkin donuts bags all over the place. Recently I witnessed such stupidity and it made my blood boil. I was sharing a spot with a bunch of redneck meat chuckers who were pounding down beers between catching fish. When the beers ran out the fishing was done. For a brief time I was actually shocked and amazed (and even renewed my faith in bait fishermen) to see these guys pick up all their trash and take it with them! That was until I was done fishing. Apparently these crackers were too lazy to carry all those big heavy empty beer bottles 1/4 mile back to the car. As I walked up the path and rounded the corner, there was all their trash just dumped on the side of the path!!!! They had carried it up far enough to be out of my sight, but they couldn't be bothered to take it the rest of the way.

[paul young]

i too wish that bait fishing was dis-allowed on no kill waters.

however, i stood on the west side of church pool last friday and watched a bait guy on the other side catch 10 to my 1. no exaggeration; he must have caught and released close to 50 fish while i was there. i was there for 2 hours and each fish was netted in a release net, handled gently and released very quickly. the only time he wasn't tight to a fish was when he stopped to re-tie. my hat is off to him! unfortunately he is the exception.

concerning litter, much has been written on this previously. i have heard over and over that you can't say that you know for a fact the litter was from bait fishermen. BS!!!!! WORM CONTAINERS, LURE PACKAGING, SNELLED HOOK PACKAGES AND BIG BALLS OF MONOFILAMENT CAME FROM THEM!!!! PERIOD!!!!!

if you have a little more time, i'll tell you how i really feel! LOL-paul

[Kierran]

As far as flyfisherman not being litterbugs, I wish that were completely true. I had a bad experience Saturday where a father/son team planned on jumping in between my partner and I. This was way too small of an area for all four of us and my buddy let them know that. They moved down and eventually left but not before they discarded an empty 5x spool on the bank. Of course this is not that common but it does happen.

[Andrew]

Apparently these crackers were too lazy to carry all those big heavy empty beer bottles 1/4 mile back to the car. As I walked up the path and rounded the corner, there was all their trash just dumped on the side of the path!!!!


Man, this kind of stuff drives me crazy too. I once saw some horseback riders do the same thing - they were wedging their empty beer cans in the forks of trees as they rode by! Apparently, even their horses were too lazy to carry out the empties!

[trouter203]

thanks for not beating around the bush bob, i needed the laugh.

[river1]

My reason for suggesting a bait ban in the TMA was not to prevent poachers no was is stating that bait free ensures beauty on the banks. And I was speaking of the seasonal TMAs that allow for trophy trout in season, catch and release after September.
My point was simple.
Securing an area half ass does just that, opens the door ever so slightly so that destruction can present itself. Putting sentries on a 1 mile square perimeter on only three sides allows for a large gap for intrusion. Keeping that same security yet notifying tresspassers they are in danger accessing that open side won't stop all but it would help with preventing, and those that still challenge the warning will pay the consequences if they are caught.
Referencing Maine and their waters to allow for realization that it's gotten to the point that it does work...are there still those who sneek in at night and try their hand at a glob of mealy worms, there always will be, are they the exception instead of the expected, yes.
I think we're just slow to act sometimes in this state.
A better example, less militaristic is what we've already seen procured through trophy trout designations and more importantly, their postings.
Are there still bait fisherman in these areas, sure, poachers? Of course. Can we not all say that the regulations that we are all trying to at least keep constant( trophy trout areas, lower creel limits, TMA extentions), if not extend the geography of worked? And all from a yellow or red sign verse the old white ones that allowed for 5 fish @ 9". The signs have helped the river grow, and I dare say made some anglers grow from sloppy baiters to fine fly line presenters. Only 1% of use were born with fly rod in hand, I wasn't one of them, I learned from my uncle Bob (Pierkowski - Alaska F/G) after he got tired of watching me getting excited over bass out of batterson. The same "evolution" has over came most of us who throw feathers for a passion now, yet either a person or a publication, maybe even after taking a bank side pause while watching the grace of a stranger's 5wt in action...something turn the tide to have most of us start the transition into fly fishing.
Something has also helped the
fishery grow to what it is. if it isn't the guidelines and restrictions posted along the river then why find a common bond to prevent the DEP from reverting back to the old . These same sort of postings, if they only read "Bait Restricted Area" might just start a handful on their way to the "next level" and allow the river to proceed even farther.
Can it hurt?

[The Patriot]

This again?! ;)

Everyone knows how I feel... no kill should equal no bait. They do it in the Catskills, why not here?

However, we have beat this one to death so many times, even I'm sick of it... and everyone here also knows how much I love a good debate.... ;) :D

Never gonna happen.... sociologically distasteful.... and the DEP says the flyfishermen kill lots more fish than the bait fishermen, simply as a result of our numbers and the number of fish we catch. (But I'm looking at percentages, not raw numbers. From a percentage standpoint, bait fishermen kill a higher percentage of their creel than fly fishermen.)

I don't think any "law", or any "sign" would have stopped those particular individuals. Then again, I didn't see anything like that upstream in the West Branch TMA, where it's no kill year round.... come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen that in the WBTMA, where it's no kill year round.

I support the idea of banning bait in the no kill, for all the above reasons that I and others have stated repeatedly.... but I am pragmatic enough and realisitic enough to accept that it probably won't happen. In the mean time, all we can do is educate others and call the TIP line...

[phels29]

River I agree with what you say. I was not graced with a fly rod from birth. I got my start with spinning set up and mealy worms. Sure I carried those plastic and styrofoam containers in but I was sure to carry them out and any other trash that I found while I was there. I am thankful that the being an Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts instilled in me a respect for nature and the enviroment that I have today. It has helped mold me into the outdoorsman I have become today. I always make sure to have a trash bag in my flyvest everytime I go out to the river. It boggles me sometimes, once while fishing I came across what appeared to be a night fishing party on the bank of the river. Beer cans and bottles strewn everywhere, not to mention power bait and lure packages. The fire was still smoldering, and this was in a dry period. One spark and half of the woods would have gone up. So I did what was instilled in me, clean up the trash. Put out that fire, place the rocks back in the river, cover the ground to look like nobody had been there and left. You could say it was my good turn for the day.

[paddy]

Patriot:

That's it? A little light on the words are ya. :p Yea I agree I do not think it will come to fruition soon enough.

Paddy