fishing for SHAD

[Saltydog]

ANYONE want to fish for SHAD, (PM me and I'll give you details) should be LOADED soon.
GOOD LUCK GOOD FISHIN

[Kierran]

I'm readinig McPhee's "Founding Fish" and it has me wanting my first American shad badly. That and Squeteague are on my most-wanted list.

[Andrew]

"Founding Fish" is a great book. I was at Valley Forge, PA a while ago, and that book made me look at the river there in a whole new light. (If you haven't gotten to that part you will...)


Never got a squeteague myself, though I have gotten some close relatives (in the Pacific). They don't excite me much.

But, shad do. Wasn't until last fall that I got my first hickory shad, and I've still never gotten an American. Given that they can reach about 8 lbs, I'd like to !!

[waterworker]

Although I've never fished for or caught them in a river, I have run into them a bunch of times from shore on the vineyard.When they were their,there were their!Crazy action and quite the jumpers. "Vineyard Tarpon".They would be there one day and gone the next.Just passin through.Fun though!......(they really liked silver and white)

[Paul D]

Up until about 6 years ago the Ousatonic Dam in Derby was an excellent spot to fish for American Shad. On a good day you could reach double digits fishing for them. They could be found below the Dam from late April to late May. I used to have a blast fishing for them and testing out new 'shad dart' flies. Also, you never knew what you were going to catch below the dam. Just a great game fish with tarpon like jumps. The American Shad can reach sizes of 5-7lbs. Much bigger than its cousin the Hickory Shad which reaches sizes of 2-3 lbs. Unfortunately, these fish are extremely sparse in the river now. They peaked around 2000. Also the decline in American Shad has mirrored the decline of herring in the river (although there seems to be a little come back so far for herring this year, at least for initial sitings). There has even been a decline in the American Shad pop. in the Enfield area. I used to fish the Shad Derby up there for a number of years. I'm hoping the A. Shad fishery on the Hous gets back to what it used to be. Paul D

[Kierran]

I'm hoping the A. Shad fishery on the Hous gets back to what it used to be. Paul D

I hope their numbers bounce back to. I never really considered the American shad opportunities in the Housatonic.

[Jon]

Up until about 6 years ago the Ousatonic Dam in Derby was an excellent spot to fish for American Shad. On a good day you could reach double digits fishing for them. They could be found below the Dam from late April to late May. I used to have a blast fishing for them and testing out new 'shad dart' flies. Also, you never knew what you were going to catch below the dam. Just a great game fish with tarpon like jumps. The American Shad can reach sizes of 5-7lbs. Much bigger than its cousin the Hickory Shad which reaches sizes of 2-3 lbs. Unfortunately, these fish are extremely sparse in the river now.

A wild stab in the dark: maybe there's a connection between actively broadcasting exactly where to go/when to catch double digits of big sporting fish, and their apparent demise?

[Adam Taylor]

Wild stab yes....but the recreational fisher did not lead to the demise of the Shad. A bunch of different theories including the increased number of striped bass foraging on the shad are being looked at. Over fishing in regards to commercial by-catch, loss and change in habitat as well as competition for food sources all play a part.

Up and down the east coast there are issues with shad...

[Jon]

I did not say that the recreational fisher lead to the demise of the Shad. I said that there was a connection between the two.

[Adam Taylor]

and I said you took a wild stab.....

there are multiple prevailing theories as to what has been impacting the shad stocks...recreational fisherman posting on a bulletin board does not seem to appear in many places. Typically it is gill netting, decline in quality habitat, food stores...a dramatic increase in striped bass populations....


Mike Hendricks, the only state-employed fish biologist dedicated to American shad on the East Coast, has cited increased predation by striped bass, which is considered to be at an all-time high, and ocean trawling commercial fishermen who net American shad as a byproduct of other targeted fish as the main reasons for the decline in adult shad during the spring spawning run.

http://articles.mcall.com/2010-02-16/sports/all-s-shad2.71784242feb16_1_commercial-shad-fishing-shad-fry-shad-and-river-herring

http://readme.readmedia.com/DEC-Enacts-Closures-and-Restrictions-for-American-Shad-Fisheries/1199453

http://www.bayjournal.com/article.cfm?article=3394

http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?A=2696&Q=322640

[Jon]

I was being sarcastic. Sorry you missed that!

Why is it, Adam, that your theories are the only ones with validity? Just because there are no local papers reporting over fishing by rod and line does not mean that we should not be careful about angling pressure. I am simply conscious of the sad irony of someone who is often tagged as the probable catalyst for higher angler pressure (bass, shad, whatever) now bemoaning the lack of fish.

I know you don't see it this way, Adam. We discussed this before when you said that killing a few thousand keeper stripers won't affect bass populations. Until they disappear (again) and we all live to regret that you were horribly mistaken.

Jon

[Adam Taylor]

First off...I completely missed the sarcasm. Secondly...the theories espoused regarding the shad come from folks that I would consider to be much more in tune and aware to the situation than I am...Thirdly...heavy forbidden someone posts a contrary viewpoint here in the glee club. Yes...I believe more anglers are better for the sport. More people utilizing the resources means more eyes on the resources. Our viewpoints are diametrically opposed on this.

[Jon]

Adam - we have always disagreed on this, and that is cool in my book. I think you continue to confuse the pressure borne of spot burning with encouraging more participation in the sport. They are clearly two different things.

Theories are just theories. We all have them. I don't think you know me in the slightest, so I suggest you reserve judgment on how in tune or aware I am, chum.

Jon

PS. With a name like Missing in Action, I'm hardly in any Glee Club

[John350]

I am pretty sure that the moderators on this site discourage naming any spot, town, or county for that matter. But I hardely think that calling out the Derby dam will make a bit of difference to how many people will be fishing there in the next few weeks. If anything it might actually help to make it more comfortable as there are an extreme amount of obnoxious spin guys that love to tangle your line. I would love to have a decent conversation with a fellow fly guy rather than Ralph with his six pack of Red Dog.

[Adam Taylor]

I don't think you know me in the slightest, so I suggest you reserve judgment on how in tune or aware I am, chum.

Respectfully request you do the same governor.

[Jon]

Adam - I didn't call you. You called me.

Respectfully, your position is based on what others say. Why do YOU think that spot burning leads to more people engaged in angling in a positive way?

Your honor, it does not.

Adam - I have no truck with you or anyone else. It seems silly to me, though, when some anglers broadcast hot fishing spots and then lament the lack of fish.

Cheers -- Jon

[Adam Taylor]

And that is the root of our disagreement. I don't believe it is spot burning. First of all...these are public resources that should be enjoyed by more folks, not less. The fact is that fishing license sales has decreased dramatically over the last decade. The amount of participation in the sport has decreased dramatically in the last decade. Look at the No Child Left Inside initiative...take a kid fishing initiative...TU's emphasis on youth education...including taking kids fishing...

I can't begin to list the numbers of times I have drawn maps, sent locations specifics to people...including fly selection to folks on this board, at TU meetings, at a coffee shop. More folks fishing means more eyes on the resources.

Ponder this...
Should a magazine not run an article about a specific river system, etc....because that is spot burning?
Should a guide not take people to specific locations...is that spot burning?
Should Grady or Torrey Collins not tell folks in their shops where people have been catching fish? Is that spot burning?
Should Ken Abrames...not send the email out saying meet me in front of the Ocean Mist on Tuesday Night...so we can fish different locations...is that spot burning?
Should there be no seminars at fishing shows or TU meetings or HFFA meetings or FRRA meetings...because heaven forbid they show you a picture of a location on a river that might hold fish...Is that spot burning?

Sorry, I believe fishing should be inclusive not exclusive. So I don't believe it is spot burning when you say...hey I caught some fish here...give it a shot. There is this prevailing idea that anglers are evil...they might catch a fish, my fish, so I fished location A...by the light of the moon B with a subset of C, D and E. Sorry..I leave the clandestine stuff to the spies. I don't get it. We read books on the topic, hire guides, go to seminars and talks, fly tying classes...but oh lord...don't say anything that might tip a spot off on the internet...Someone might read it and fish there. Well, not for anything, they may have been sitting in the same classes, seminars or read the same magazine article.

When I take someone fishing I want them to catch something and enjoy the experience of the outdoors, the feel of the rod as it makes that great arc....the sound of line being pulled off the reel. Success keeps people coming back. Some people actually fish to catch fish...and maybe as a byproduct they become involved in FRRA/HFFA...TU or a watershed group to protect the resources that they use.

If I go to a particular location on a river or stream and there are people standing where I like to, it doesn't bother me. I just move upstream or downstream or pick another location on the flat, etc.

I like the camaraderie in fishing. Remember this...someone had to share with you a location, a technique or a fly at some point. I have yet to meet someone who hasn't. By doing that..did they spot burn?

So...I will continue to share information...and when I see you standing in "my" spot...I tip my hat and wish you a fine day. But only after I ask you how the fishing has been.

[waterworker]

Excellent post and I must say you have made great points in the "ponder" section.I like yourself,have never minded giving out a little info on some good spots to someone going to a new area.Actually,I always enjoyed suggesting places on the Vineyard to people going out that haven't had the good fortune of spending the time I have in such a great place.A little info to fellow fly fisherman will never worry me.Good debate though. (ps...I will never give out my Salmon River honey hole)

[Jon]

I like the camaraderie in fishing. Remember this...someone had to share with you a location, a technique or a fly at some point. I have yet to meet someone who hasn't. By doing that..did they spot burn?So...I will continue to share information...and when I see you standing in "my" spot...I tip my hat and wish you a fine day. But only after I ask you how the fishing has been.

Adam - thanks for this thorough response. I agree with much that you say (not that you should care one iota). As I've said before, to me there's a thin but important line between our positions. I think you have more confidence than me in the nature of people. You are right about what you say in this quote. But I know that the people who availed me of some of their rivers, streams and coastline did so when they had some confidence that I would not abuse the privilege. And it is a privilege to fish for wild brookies, stripers, bluegils etc. Being a prudent bunch, I've found very few anglers who readily and quickly share where they go and when in the rather unrealistic way you describe. Not all anglers are conservation minded and there are people who abuse the privilege. You talk as if you've not been privy to such examples.

I do not want to engage in point/counter-point with you on this - I've enjoyed the discussion before and respect your view. One final comment I must make is to challenge your assertion that to be prudent with information about fishing spots is to be an exclusive, secretive, and selfish type. In my experience this is as misguided a sentiment as the one that suggests "anglers are evil".

Tight lines.

Jon

[Adam Taylor]

[QUOTE]I think you have more confidence than me in the nature of people. /QUOTE]

Maybe so. I just don't think it is my place to project what an individual's motives are towards fishing. I agree that it is a privilege to fish for stripers and brookies and bluegills for that matter. One that I think more people should take advantage off. It gets people asking why? Why do we need clean water for fish? Why do brookies have those funky spots on them? Why does a fly rod flex the way it does?....I want more people to participate.

On this topic we can go around and around for days, weeks and months. You see a thin line...I don't. But that is what makes the world go around.

Be well

[Jon]

When I see someone heralding a great catch in a particular spot, I'm going to assume that not everyone will start meditating about rod flex, water quality, blue halos, and fairy cup cakes. I'm gonna acknowledge (responsibly) that there are some people who use the internet as a means to launch their next fish-mongering raid.

There are lots of different people in the world. Some direct TU programs (and we value them, we really do), and some discard nylon and beer cans and could care less about conservation and getting kids involved. Polar opposites and every shade in between, all of whom have access to the Internet and the latest hot spot.

Worth talking about, I think.

Jon

[waterworker]

Now you've gone and done it....nylon,beer cans and bait containers.Every time I see that crap my head wants to explode.I can't tell you how many times I've come back to the car with that stuff in my vest.Not often or at all in fly only areas but everywhere else.As far as trolling fly sites for info, I doubt these turds can read anyway! Arhhhh

[southpaw526]

...and used condoms, and styrofoam coolers, and old sneakers, etc.....Yes, believe it, this is the Farmy I'm talkng about, not the Naugy...I once found someone had emptied the entire contents of a vhs tape and wound it through a series of trees and shrubs at one of my favorite, out-of-the-way, spots on the Farmy. I couldn't believe someone had actually sat there and spent their time doing that. A lot more troublesome than some idiot tossing a can from his window, because this person spent some time doing this and actually put some thought into it. I sat there for almost an hour unraveling this stuff and took it away. After I fished, of course, LOL....Beer cans? I throw them in the back of the truck and bring them to the recycling center. It's my compensation for all the time I spend picking up other people's crap...LOL....As much of a conservationist as I am, I must admit, I'm never picking up anyone's used condoms. I don't care if there was a 3 foot high pile of them sitting right on the river bank with a pile of nylon and beer cans underneath, all sitting on top of an Orvis Helios 4wt. Homey don't play dat.....

[WhiteWulff]

Adam Taylor. Thanks for the helpful links about shad decline. Up here in Massachusetts the decline has been painfully evident, especially after the banner years of six to nine years ago. In our neck of the woods, popularity/publication of the better shad fishing spots does not at all appear correlated with decline in the fish's abundance. Most folks were aware of the better spots to fish and most anglers (spin and fly fishermen) released the fish. Also, heavy fishing pressure didn't seem to matter much re: successful catching. The shad is finicky, and is either on or off. A large number of anglers (within reason) did not negatively affect the quality of the sport--at least not back when the run was abundant.