Can someone tell me how to fly fish?

[jaybp30]

So I got out a recently heavily stocked TMA today to practice some of my nymphing techniques that have failed me on a regular basis over the last few years. So mistake #1, went with my friend who spinfishes. Mistake #2 nymphing. Mistake #3 ever trying to learn fly fishing.

I watched my buddy catch about 7 fish before getting my first hit, which was on the swing with some sort of big heavy stone fly nymph (lost so many dont know when I used which). Watched him catch another dozen before landing my first (finally gave up nymphing out of frustration) and ended by catching the last fish of the day, a tiny brookie to make the final count; spin fishermen-22, fly fisherman-4. My 4 were all stripping back a white BH super-flashy bugger. Not my most exciting idea of fly fishing. Had stone flies crawling on my neck all night but didn't see a rise (didn't expect to with newly stocked trout).

I actually missed/lost probably 8-10 fish on top of the 4 I landed so under normal circumstances I would be more than more than satisfied. But considering these fish were as aggressive and dumb as can be, I really wanted to work on my technique. I am really starting to think maybe I'll never get this. Got my first fly rod in April of '06 and aside from the fact I don't spend nearly as much time untangling line I don't think my presentation skills have progressed much since '07.

Thanks for listening, I feel a little better now. My girlfriend isn't home to get the brunt of this rant.

John,

Good seeing you today, lets get out soon, can never fish with that guy you met today for trout again.

[FK]

Have you tried an indicator,,, yarn or equivalent ??

I also suggest you inquire at Upcountry for a class or a guided trip, it will really short cut the learning curve.

When fishing nymphs it sometime is all about presentation and not the exact fly pattern.

Regards,
FK

[Andrew]

So, you saw him getting a lot of fish on spinning gear (i.e. on a retrieved lure), and the fish you DID get came on a retrieved lure (i.e. fly) - correct?

So it seemed clear what the fish wanted - correct?

But you stuck with the technique that wasn't working, i.e. a "non-retrieved" fly - correct?

I don't see the problem - you're clearly a fly fisherman!

[gdelozier]

I would start by ignoring the spin fisherman. Really dark sun glasses and either an Ipod or earplugs will help. Not having to hear him yelling "Whee ha" 21 times works wonders.

If that does not help you might consider therapy or a self help book - google something like "When 4 is not enough...the pitfalls and perils of fish envy."

Maybe I'm just bitter, having not caught one trout all winter... 4 in a day sounds like heaven...:nerd:

[shook2323]

I'd certainly echo what FK said, take a class and/or guide trip. You can see first hand how, and maybe more importantly why, the good guys do what they do.

I've been out at least 15 times this year so far, and I've hooked one fish that came off. And I'm pretty sure it was a sucker. I've watched people come in after me and pick up fish in no time. I've helped show people where the fish were, moved over to accomodate them, and watched them catch fish. Fly, spin, centerpin, what ever... I've tried hand tied leaders, tapered leaders, various flies which I know were working, different sizes and shapes of split shot... Hasn't mattered one bit. That tells me that either I have some rotten luck or my technique ...needs improvement. So, you'll find me in a class in upcounty in the near future.

Hope that helps, you're not the only one getting skunked.

[jaybp30]

Appreciate all the advice. Sorry for sounding spoiled having caught a few fish today, I know I usually consider this an amazing day. I was on a 0-6 skunk streak so having my hand smell like trout was nice. Really I'm just venting about how frustrated I am about my technique not improving. I have resisted a guide for trout really wanting to learn without paying someone but I may bite the bullet. I sometimes watch people fishing but I think I need someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong. The person who taught me to fly fish rarely nymphed, it was streamers, swinging/stripping emergers and dries, in that order, with dries only attempted once. He was an exgirlfriend's father so obviously I don't fish with him anymore. My regular fishing buddy was the above mentioned spin fisherman and he spends most trips convincing me to stop fly fishing. He doesn't get why I do it and its hard to defend on a day like today. I just have to tell him he just doesn't get it. I do and thats why, despite todays frustration and actually contemplating throwing my rod in the river twice today, I have been sitting watching basketball, thinking about when I will be able to get out next. Stupid trout.

[Z Fisher]

If you fish to catch fish, then bait on a hook is the best way, hands down. Next is a crankbait scurrying through the water.

I think what's happened to you is you've discovered, like many of us on this site, that angling is not only about the fish. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with other points of view. It's simply that beyond the tangles, snarls, bad casts, lost flies, and fishless days fly fishing provides a very different, enjoyable experience. Maybe it's the slower pace. The tradition. The funky gear. It's hard to figure out what that is, but it's there and it keeps us coming back.

Don't give up.

Get some instruction and/or find a partner who fly fishes. Visit a TU meeting or the FRAA meeting or some other fly fishing club to get assistance.

You've chosen a different path. One with many rewards.

[steve B]

z fisher

well stated amen

Steve

[Andrew]

Appreciate all the advice. Sorry for sounding spoiled having caught a few fish today, I know I usually consider this an amazing day. I was on a 0-6 skunk streak so having my hand smell like trout was nice. Really I'm just venting about how frustrated I am about my technique not improving. I have resisted a guide for trout really wanting to learn without paying someone but I may bite the bullet. I sometimes watch people fishing but I think I need someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong. The person who taught me to fly fish rarely nymphed, it was streamers, swinging/stripping emergers and dries, in that order, with dries only attempted once. He was an exgirlfriend's father so obviously I don't fish with him anymore. My regular fishing buddy was the above mentioned spin fisherman and he spends most trips convincing me to stop fly fishing. He doesn't get why I do it and its hard to defend on a day like today. I just have to tell him he just doesn't get it. I do and thats why, despite todays frustration and actually contemplating throwing my rod in the river twice today, I have been sitting watching basketball, thinking about when I will be able to get out next. Stupid trout.

Sounds to me like maybe your friend does get it.

But the point I was trying to make earlier is that maybe you are mis-reading the situation. It's clear from what you've written that you're assuming that you weren't catching as many fish because you weren't nymphing correctly, but you made it plain that plenty of fish were being caught by him and by you when you didn't nymph.

So, do you suppose the problem could have been that your mistake wasn't in how you were nymphing, but in that you chose to nymph for those particular fish in those particular locations...when it was clear that, for whatever reason, they weren't in the mood for nymphs?

You can catch fish on your terms and be happy. You can catch fish on their terms and be happy. But you can't make the fish agree to accept your terms!

[Todd K]

Right on Steve.

I am a stubborn Fly Fishermen. I have nothing against the spin game. I even fish with guys down in the salt (HeavyD) who are using spin gear and catching 25-30 pound bass next to me and I will stick to my fly rod. I have nothing to prove other than I just want to say I've caught a monster on a fly rod. There is a lot to be said by watching the spin fisherman. What they are using, what depth, and how they are retrieving. There will be times where a fly rod just won't accomplish what you need. A would say the river is the Fly Fishermans home though.

Some anglers understand why you put yourself through the pain and others just don't get it. Keep at it! You will have your day when you are killing it and the spin guy won't. It will happen.

[leadwingcoachman]

fly fishing is for people who enjoy solving problems... you've discovered that it's beauty is that it has the capability of providing many... now comes the fun part.

I have to agree with Andrew, that the solution was right there in front of you, you should have gone to a stripping streamers across stream quickly or swinging them across and down with some action. We all make the call some days to just fish the way we want to and ignore other options, I'll call those practice days. Some days I get satisfaction just untangling knots, it's part of the allure of angling.

[The Fisherman]

RE: Some days I get satisfaction just untangling knots
They say if it's going to take you longer than two minutes to untangle a knot, you should cut it off. Can't do it. I gotta figure out how to untangle that sucker.

[Apache Trout]

Jay, it was good to see you. You did better than me if that makes you feel better, 4 to 3. :) I'll share a little something with you. Some years ago I fished that stream the day after it was stocked with my spin rod and caught & released about 30 on Trout Magnets (plastic grub like lure).
Yesterday, I caught 3 on a stonefly I tied, on the surface.
Guess which was more rewarding? Easy answer, yesterday.
I like freshwater spin fishing, surfcasting & fly. Never used a bait casting or center pin. Haven't salt water fly fished yet. Each style & trip is rewarding in its own way regardless of the fish I catch.
I had a day in Virginia fly fishing for super spooky brookies in low clear water. Spent hours fishing & I managed to hook one that stayed on for 10 seconds. That day still ranks as one of my favorites.
Like others said the trout will tell you what they want. Conditions will also have their say as well. I found risers in an area protected from the wind. Other spots, streamers & buggers were probably the way to go. I passed another Fly Addict member in the parking lot right after I saw you. He had the biggest black bugger I'd ever seen tied on. I wonder how he did? :-)
Yes, we will fish soon. Got to show you some NY water. Got a week straight of work to plow through before I get a break.
Remember, fishing is always fun.
Talk to you soon, J.

[passinthru63]

Zfisher and Andrew nailed it for sure. I've only been fly fishing now for abotu 4 years and I never, ever use my spinning gear in fresh water. never ever anymore. It's always the fly. I fish to be outside and clear my head and enjoy nature and get relaxed. Anyone can stand there and drop some bait or chunk and wind a lure with very little concentration, but fly fisherman have to concentrate much more, on the cast, your back cast, presentation, line control, etc. I come off the water more relaxed, clear headed and even a little tired after fly fishing, more so than I ever did with my spinning gear. I always feel good coming off the water after fly fishing no matter the fish count.

Now don't get me wrong, I've had the same frustrating days as Jay. i remember an early outing last year on the Willi where I was bound and determined to nymph because I needed the practice. I nymphed, and nymphed and nymphed with nothing to show. So with about 45 minutes left in my outing I tied on my trust old wooly bugger and picked up 6 fish in a row, same spot as nymphing. Frustrating sure, but I just laughed it off and on the next outing I nymphed some more. If you go to the stream with a determination on how you are going to fish, you've already lost. The fish will tell you what they want and then you need to decide either to give it to them or be stubborn. I've been known to do both.

I'd say it was good outing for you and you will get your friend back at some point. I've seen it happen. :fish:

[L25]

The incomplete life cycle of a fisherman.
Look I caught a fish!!!!
Must catch fish to have fun. Must catch alot of fish to have fun.
Must catch more fish than you.
Must catch more and bigger fish to be happy, and strap them to the hood of my car and drive around to show everyone I caught more and bigger fish than everyone.
Must go fishing and catching a fish would make me happier than not.
Must go fishing and catching a fish would be satisfying.
Must go fishing.
On the water rod in hand life is good.
GONE FISHIN........

[flyrodder]

You can catch fish on your terms and be happy. You can catch fish on their terms and be happy. But you can't make the fish agree to accept your terms!

This is an absolute truth in fishing. If catching fish is your goal, you need to learn to be observant, adaptive, and flexible. Time on the water helps too. I owe much of my success to the fact that I probably fish close to over 200 times a year.

[Andrew]

Zfisher and Andrew nailed it for sure.

Anyone can stand there and drop some bait or chunk and wind a lure with very little concentration, but fly fisherman have to concentrate much more, on the cast, your back cast, presentation, line control, etc.

Just for the record, this isn't what I said or what I meant. Intense concentration is not limited, at all, to fly fishermen, and complete lack of concentration is not absent in many fly fishermen.

I don't even think intense concentration is always the goal, at least not for me.

[Z Fisher]

A note on those little stoneflies: Stoneflies don't hatch on the water like mayflies and caddis. The swim/crawl to the shore (or your leg) walk up a bit and then hatch onshore (onleg). If you have mayflies hatching (or crawling around on you) you might think about nymphing or swinging nymphs closer to shore. The fish may be on those close to shore.

[waterworker]

fly fishing is for people who enjoy solving problems... you've discovered that it's beauty is that it has the capability of providing many... now comes the fun part. Lot's of good stuff but that's my favorite line.I spun fished for forty years.Caught many,many fish.Took up fly fishing ten years ago.When I did,I gave away all my fresh water spinning gear.I have never regretted it even one second.Wait until your fishing with the same friend and he leaves a pool with none and you step in with your fly rod and bang a couple.Then see how you feel.It will happen,I know,I've been that soldier and it feels great!

[Z Fisher]

Just for the record, this isn't what I said or what I meant. Intense concentration is not limited, at all, to fly fishermen, and complete lack of concentration is not absent in many fly fishermen.

I don't even think intense concentration is always the goal, at least not for me.

For me it's sort of zen. By focusing on the act of fly fishing the other stuff recedes. Not so much concentration but focus. Sometimes "focusing on fly fishing" means dialing in a pesky emerger situation and sometimes it means standing on a rock with my line reeled up, smoking a cigar, enjoying God's great universe (which was where I was on Tuesday afternoon).

[trouter203]

I probably fish close to over 200 times a year.

conservatively!

[trouter203]

freshly stocked fish eat the most obvious source of food. i am not sure that i would fish the same water as a spin fisherman on fresh fish. you are better off waiting a couple of days until the fish get more in tune with the natural foods in ths stream.

[Adam Taylor]

and complete lack of concentration is not absent in many fly fishermen.

I resemble that comment....

I often have my ipod playing as I roam around casting like a moron to absolutely no particular spot on the river. My satisfaction comes from catching fish in the most unlikely of places when I really don't expect it.

Good times.

[Andrew]

For me it's sort of zen. By focusing on the act of fly fishing the other stuff recedes. Not so much concentration but focus.

I agree completely - I was just suggesting that fly fishing is not unique in this way. Watch a serious largemouth bass fisherman slowly working a plastic worm, his finger gently touching the line and his eyes focused on where the line enters the water, looking for that subtle twitch. You won't find greater concentration than that in fishing.

[jaybp30]

You know, I started this thread as a place to vent my frustration and it has turned into one of the most useful and fun I have ever read.


I got back out there, to the same river, with the same spin fishing friend but a complete different mind set. He caught about 15 including one football probably about 17 or 18" (which he lost at his feet because his nets too small and he wasnt in waders so he couldnt grab it). I caught 3, which is one less then yesterday and one was foul hooked so really just 2. But today I fished dries after seeing one little rise (nothing doing there), nymphed in pools that looked like it would work (didnt) and streamers when I felt like doing what I know is working best. And you know what? I had a great day. I caught two fish on a streamer I used to love fishing but stopped using for one reason or another. The first was on a DEAD DRIFT, HAHA!. I was so pumped. Wasn't even planning on dead drifting it but getting my line out I let it drift a couple times and a brown slammed it.

By the way, Andrew, "You can catch fish on your terms and be happy. You can catch fish on their terms and be happy. But you can't make the fish agree to accept your terms!" is the best quote ever.

[The Fisherman]

Rats.

I thought "Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!" was the best quote ever.

:-)

[Andrew]

Well, I've always been partial to "Chartreuse green is people!!!!"

In any case, the quote, though mine, was inspired by a short passage from Roderick Haig-Brown's book "Fisherman's Fall", where he's describing what sometimes makes him use techniques that he ought to know aren't the best. He says it's his "...measure of obstinancy mixed with some faint conceit that one should be able to force the fish, against all the probabilities, to accept one's own terms. The more sensible alternatives are, for the moment, less attractive precisely because they have succeeded in the past and probably would do so again."

Ol' Roddy is a goldmine.